Justin Su’a is the Head of Mental Performance for the Tampa Bay Rays of Major League Baseball. He works with players to enhance their mental performance to perform under enormous pressure. He has worked for the Boston Red Sox as well as the NFL’s Cleveland Browns. He is the author of two books,“Parent Pep Talks” and “Mentally Tough Teens”
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All right. Welcome to the Circle of Success. I’m your host, Brett Gilland. Today I’ve got Justin Su’a with me. Justin. How you doing, man?
Justin Su’a
Doing great, Brett. You’re doing great. Looking forward to the conversation.
Brett Gilliland
Awesome. Me as well, man. It is. Uh, we were talking before we hit record here, September 11th, 2018 was the last time you and I spoke five plus years ago. I can’t, I, I can’t believe it’s been that long.
Justin Su’a
It’s, it’s incredible. Yeah. It seemed like, uh, yeah. I remember, I remember our last conversation vividly.
Brett Gilliland
Yes, it was, uh, I, one of my favorite quotes that I’ve done this, see, you’re the 316th interview I’ve done now, and, uh, for some reason, one of the quotes you said is “dominate the level you’re at.”
And, uh, I may be paraphrasing there, but dominate the level you’re at. Has really stuck with me and even a couple of my buddies. We’ve, we’ve continued to talk about it. Is no matter where you’re at in life, man, just, just dominate that area. It may not be exactly where you’re going or want to be going, but if you’re there, choose to be there and dominate it.
So I’m gonna kick off with that man. Is, is your thoughts on that when you hear me say that from five plus years ago?
Justin Su’a
It’s, it’s really neat. I, I, I like the fact that you said that it’s a really good reminder because I think there are certain principles that hold true. They’re universal and they’re timeless. And I think that is one in particular that is a, just a simple reminder, uh, number one, dominate being, being, doing the best that you possibly can wherever you are. I think we still, even still, we live in a world where we’re looking ahead. We are, we are not where our feet are, we are not fully present. And I think reminding ourselves to dominate the level we’re at is to be fully focused and go all in on where you currently are and letting the outcome and the results take care of themselves. And doors will open to the degree that you put forth your best effort in the here and now.
So I’m, I’m still, uh, I’ll still double down on that, uh, on that principle. And I, and I still believe it even five years later.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah. It’s so true, man. It’s, uh, and, and you talk about a lot as well as control the controllables. So let’s, let’s talk about that. When you, when you hear me say control the controllables, we’ve all heard it, we’ve read it in books, you hear it a million times from people, but what does that mean to you and how do you help people with that?
Justin Su’a
Yeah, I think it’s, it’s a simple principle, but it’s, it’s hard to execute at times. Uh, controlling the controlling controllables it starts with identifying, what can I control? I, I think asking yourself that question, looking in the mirror and saying, okay, the nature of my situation is very difficult. Uh, it’s it being able to look at the brutal facts of whatever you’re going through and saying, okay, what can I control of this situation. Now, with that, with that, it’s also understanding and identifying the things you cannot control.
Now the things you try to control, but can’t, end up controlling you. There’s a phrase that you, you hear a lot of people say is you can control your thoughts, you can control your, uh, you can control your thoughts. We’ll just, we’ll just stop with that. Sometimes someone might not feel they can control their thoughts.
Sometimes they might not feel they can control their emotions because of the nature of whatever they’re going through. And I think it’s very important to understand that, you know what? My mind is screaming right now. I can’t control my attention. I can’t control my thoughts. So instead of beating up on yourself over these things that you should control to be able to say, you know what, right now I can’t control my thoughts. Okay, what can I control? What can I, what, what can I grab a hold of? And sometimes it might be a very small hold on this tiny little corner of, of, of things that you can control and go all in on that. Another thing to identify as well is there are uncontrollable factors that are contributing to your success or your failure.
It is very important to identify what those are as well. A lot of times we’ll succeed. Let’s say you have a good week, you have a good quarter, you have a good year. You need to identify and say, okay, what were things that contributed to my success that I had absolutely no control over?
Brett Gilliland
Yeah.
Justin Su’a
Because it keeps us humble. It keeps us grounded. But also when we fail and when we struggle, it’s also important to ask, okay, what were things that I could not control that contributed to my failures. That contributed, that contributed to my struggles to help you realize that, hey, there were things outside of my control that I couldn’t control, I can’t beat up on myself about because they were complete uncontrollable factors that I had nothing to do with.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah. And, and, uh, I think, you know, when I look back, I mean, last time we chatted again five plus years ago, you’re with the Boston Red Sox, and I believe maybe the Cleveland Browns, uh, now with the Tampa Bay Rays, you guys made the playoffs this year. That’s good. Uh, so you’re, you’re the, you’re the director, I guess the head of mental performance, uh, for the whole team.
And so when you’re, when you’re with guys like that day in and day out, man, you’re with the best, right? The best baseball players in the world. Well, what are you seeing from them? Based on everything we’re talking about, dominate the level you’re at control, the controllables, all these things. What are you seeing that you can just sit back in the dugout and watch that and kind of almost in awe saying “This is happening day in and day out.”
Justin Su’a
What I, I like that phrase that you said. What I’m in awe of is anytime you are around elite performers in any industry or any domain, and I’ll speak specifically about the players who I get to see day in and day out, is number one is this, is this feeling that they’re not only pursuing greatness, but you’re all, uh, you’re not this feeling that you’re not only chasing, but you’re being chased at the same.
It’s this constant angst of I wanna be great, but I know people are right behind me trying to be great as well.
Brett Gilliland
Right.
Justin Su’a
And when you are surrounded by people who are competing for the same thing, everyone has the goal to win the World Series. That’s the thing about goal setting. Everyone wants to be great in this level. Everyone wants to win. Okay? So what are the things that you’re doing? What are the behaviors that you’re setting up for yourselves, what are the systems, what are the habits that you wanna be deliberate with that will… where the, to, to the degree where the byproduct is success. And I think this group in particular, this, this level of performer, they’re, yes, they are pursuing outcomes, but they’re dogged and rig and rigid and relentless on their pursuit of creating high performance habits. And because they know, as they solidify their inputs, as they solidify those controllable habits, the output or the results will take care of themselves. And it has been neat to watch them have a front row seat, to watch them embrace the boredom of consistency away from the cameras away from away from the crowd. That is, that is huge.
Brett Gilliland
I mean, and you’re seeing that, right? Because I mean, you think about you get there, say the game’s at 7:10, I mean, you’re getting there what, one o’clock maybe even before that?
Justin Su’a
Yes. Even before that. Even before that.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah. So to your point, is that, that’s the boring, mundane type stuff, isn’t it? I mean that you show up, it’s not the same locker room every time, but in a sense it’s right square room, bathroom, some weights, little batting cage. It’s the same stuff every single day. But yet these guys show up even on days they don’t want to. and, and they do it. So do you find, I’m, cause I’m fascinated with this stuff. Do you find that this thing is just so ingrained in them that they don’t need to go to a journal or a, you know, a workbook type thing? Or are they taking notes on their selves, on each other, on other things? Like what are they doing that we can apply, what they’re doing in the locker room, that we can apply to the boardroom at work?
Justin Su’a
I think you brought up a really good point. I think they, not everybody, and I don’t, I don’t want to say that all athletes are the same.
Brett Gilliland
Sure.
Justin Su’a
All, uh, performers are meditating. All of them are journaling. Some are, some aren’t. Some try, some don’t. Some meditate, some don’t. Uh, but what is, but what I have noticed is some are willing to look in the mirror and say, okay, what do I need to improve and what am I, and they’re willing to make adjustments in order to approve in those outcomes. So for example, yes, there are some athletes who are absolutely journaling. Uh, there are some athletes who are meditating and they are very deliberate on their meditative practice.
There are some who, rather than journaling, they like to talk about it, they want to self-reflect at the end of their game or at the end of the series or at the end of the series, uh, at the end of the month to be able to calibrate and recalibrate where they’re at to see their trajectory. Uh, there are some who practice visual visualization.
There are some who don’t. There are some who are very mindful of, of, of the thoughts that they have going through their mind and their attention mechanisms that they use to, to, to narrow their attention. And some, not so much it, but, so I think that’s a lesson in and of itself. They are very aware of, of identifying what works for them.
And, uh, they, they do what works for them and what works for one person might not work for another person. And they’re, they are very well aware of if they see a teammate doing something, rather than jumping on and adopting that same habit, they investigate, Hey, why do you do that? Why, how long have you been doing that? What works for you? Okay, let me see if I could either do something similar or taper it so that it works for me.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah. Yeah. The old steel shamelessly, right? I mean, if it’s working for your buddy, especially in sports man, people are so superstitious and, and, and I was talking to Daniel Descalso, he played for the Cardinals and amongst other, among other teams. But he talked about even the times when he is going like, oh, for 15, but you’re hitting the crap outta the ball, right? But you’re just hitting line drives right at the short stop or a line drive at the center fielder. I mean, those are the times where it’s so frustrating. And, and so what do those guys do to stay in the game even though they’re doing the right things, they’re not just, they’re just not getting the outcome that they want.
Justin Su’a
I think that the answer is in the question you just asked. Uh, separating the process from the outcome. And a lot of times we focus so much on the outcome, but sometimes the process leading, you did everything right. Everything, everything in your power, you did… you crossed your T’s, you dotted your I’s, you did properly, but you’re performing against the best in the world and there are things inside of your control and outside of your control. And you know what? You hit it right at a person or they made a great play or the, it just didn’t work out in your favor.
And I think there’s a very powerful lesson to go with that, to not conflate decision making and results. We, we learned this in poker. I think Annie Duke, Annie Duke is a, is a very great example of this and teaches this.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah.
Justin Su’a
You cannot mix the two. Uh, just a a, a very simple example about this is just because you run a red light, you decide to run a red light and pass through the intersection unscathed. That, that doesn’t mean it was a good decision. That that was dumb luck that that don’t think. But on the same side, if it’s a green light and you decide not to go on the green light and another car comes barreling through the intersection and you would’ve been hit, or there would’ve been an accident had you gone through. That doesn’t mean it was a good decision. That was dumb. That was, uh, that was dumb. That was dumb luck. And so, or, or as you’re going through a green light and you get hit, that wasn’t, doesn’t mean it was a bad decision to go through the green light, it was bad luck. And so being able to understand and tease out and to say, Hey, the decision, the process was good. But the outcome wasn’t good. Don’t throw away the process just because the outcome was bad. And I say, I think they learn that very often here at the, at the highest level, but it’s an, it’s an easy trap to fall into.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah. Do you, I mean, I, I assume, and maybe I shouldn’t, maybe I shouldn’t assume that, but I, I gotta think that you’re even taking notes for the off season, right? I mean, things that you’re doing uh, in the off season, the people that you’re helping, I mean, are, are, are you a note taker? Are you, uh, taking mental notes, physical notes, like what are you doing to stay a student in the game for you to help your athletes and other clients get better?
Justin Su’a
Yes. I think there’s a couple of things. Number one is, is being able to have conversations to, to talk about what I observed and that’s why I think that the Axiom build relationships so strong, they could bear the weight of truth is so important to be able to ask an athlete, Hey, I’m noticing this. Um, tell me what you see, or tell me what your thoughts are about that. Hey, I noticed this. You used to do this. You don’t do that anymore, or you do this and you used to do it before, is that on purpose or is that not? And so this off season, this is a great time to be able to have a lot of those great conversations and ask them, Hey, what were your strengths? What were your weaknesses? What do you wanna do next season? And I think that’s, imperative number one.
Brett Gilliland
So..
Justin Su’a
Number Two.
Brett Gilliland
I’m sorry, go ahead.
Justin Su’a
Uh, number two, it’s very important for me to continue to strengthen my skillset, whether it be learning more about neuroscience, learning more about organizational, uh, uh, behavior, learning more about how to ask better questions. Uh, you’re right, taking notes, taking courses, getting more education so that I can be a better, uh, a better resource for the people who I work with. Just like an elite athletes here they are trying to sharpen and get better and, and improve. I would be doing a disservice if I wasn’t trying to do the same thing on my end, if I wasn’t trying to learn and grow and understand and, and, and get better and sharp with my own skillset.
And that’s where the off season is for myself and for the coaches as well. What can we do to get better so that we can be better resources for these athletes who are trying to get better as well?
Brett Gilliland
Yeah. Cause the expectations are high, right? I mean, you’ve got high expectations, but they’ve got high expectations for you and there’s a ton of guys and gals out there that, that want to put on that, that raise, uh, hat and come in the locker room every day. Right. So you gotta stay on your game, man. Which I think for us in the business world is important. You know, there, there’s people coming for your clients, your patients, whatever it is you do for a living. I mean, that stuff is always out there. So we gotta, we gotta stay a student in the game, I think is a, is a big deal. You, you put on recently on social media, you said, um, it was a post. I’m gonna paraphrase, but basically, you know, if you wanna set high goals, your lifestyle must be in line with those high goals, right?
And so I think, so let’s talk about that because I don’t know if it was Bryce Harper or Mike Trout. I remember somebody saying, it’s basically a lot of guys just want to get to the league, but they said their main goal was to get to the Hall of Fame. And so that’s a different expectation, right? If I wanna be in the Hall of Fame, well, here’s my work ethic.
If I just want to get to the league, well, maybe you get there and you last a week and then you’re gone and you’ll never come back. So, so talk about that lifestyle, setting high goals, and what we gotta do there.
Justin Su’a
Yes. Uh, people, uh, people underestimate whenever you set a high goal, uh, you also have to commit to the lifestyle that’s going to be required to achieve that goal. And what a lot of people do is they underestimate the cost of the goal. Like everything comes with the cost. And when I say cost, it’s going to, what’s it? Whatever goal that you set in any in your life, you need to ask yourself, what’s the cost of time? What’s the cost of energy, and what’s gonna be the cost of my focus?
You have to honestly ask yourself that question, those questions, because the higher goal you have, the, the, the higher your expectations, the more it’s going to cost. And that’s just in anything, in anything in life. If you want, uh, more things that are more expensive or higher quality is gonna cost more. And you just need to add, just be honest with yourself. Do I really want this goal? Okay, great. I cannot underestimate how hard it’s going to be and how long it’s going to take, and so if you’re going to set a high goal, you need to ask yourself, what am I willing to do? There are trade-offs, and in order to pay the price to achieve these things, it’s going to require a cost, and so it might be you have to start doing some things. You have to ask yourself, okay, if I’m gonna achieve that, and this is the cost, what do I need to start doing? What do I need to stop doing and what do I need to keep doing in order to achieve this goal. And then once you start getting down that track, a lot of people will realize, you know what? This isn’t for me.
This, this, this is not for me. Because if it was easy, everybody would do it. Everybody..
Brett Gilliland
Everyone.
Justin Su’a
Would do it. But if you, yeah, if you wanna truly be consistent and and really achieve these things, it’s going to take a lot of effort. Now, another thing as well is you don’t have to do everything all at once. It’s all about being, chipping away and being consistent every single day and building the capacity to be able to stick with it for the long haul. You, where people struggle is they focus on intensity and they don’t focus on consistency. Focus on building these tiny, small habits every single day and then you slowly build it. Slowly build it, slowly build it. It’s that long term success. Um..
Brett Gilliland
Yeah.
Justin Su’a
They, they think that success is built in a microwave when the reality is success is built in a slow cooker.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah. And I agree with that, and I think there’s, in my opinion, there’s, there’s difference in working at a motivation and working at a purpose, right? So, I mean, if you gotta constantly be getting motivated. I mean, day in and day out, you gotta listen to motivational speaker, you gotta get your pump up music, you gotta do all this stuff.
I don’t think you’re real clear on what you’re trying to go do. Right? So I know for me, when I’m working in my purpose, helping people achieve a future greater than their past, when I’m doing that, I don’t need motivation. I’m doing what I’m put on this earth to do, right? But yet, how do we dig deep? And even on days we don’t wanna do it and maybe you had a comment there when you hear me say that.
Justin Su’a
It was so refreshing what you said. I, I took a deep breath cause I’m like, that was refreshing and that is true. Motivation is such a, it’s a, it’s a word that you hear a lot. I was talking to someone the other day and they’re like, how do I motivate my people?
And that’s a common question, I think.
Brett Gilliland
Oh, sure.
Justin Su’a
Great leaders or leaders are asking, how do I motivate my people coaches? How do I motivate my athletes parents? How do I motivate my kids? But what the research shows, a better question is how do I create an environment where they motivate themselves? And even that word motivation is interesting too, because we never use the word motivation. The athletes not even on purpose. Yeah. The athletes at the highest level never talk about motivation because it’s discipline, it’s purpose. Like it’s, you’ve building these habits where when you’re creating a habit, at first it’s uh, uncomfortable, but then if you keep doing it, it becomes unbreakable. And motivation, it’s you have to be willing to do something even when you don’t feel like doing it. These guys, they don’t feel like eating the way they eat. They don’t feel like doing these boring mundane things. But you do it because your purpose is, is stronger than your desire to not do it. It’s like, Hey, this is just what I do.
And an example I always give is like brushing your teeth. Uh, I always ask somebody, I’ll ask someone. Are you motivated to brush your teeth? What motivates you to brush your teeth? Assuming that you do it every day. And they’re like, well, I just, I don’t, I don’t, I’m not motivated. I just do it. You just do it. It’s like interesting.
Brett Gilliland
Right.
Justin Su’a
You just naturally do it. You’ll, you can create these habits where maybe at first you need motivation as you want to call, call it. But then it’s discipline and then it’s purpose, and then you get to a point to where it’s just what you do.
Brett Gilliland
It’s just what I do.
Justin Su’a
You just, it’s just baked. This is just what I do. It’s just what I do. And, and it’s, it’s with that consistency.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah. And I think let’s stay on the, uh, brushing your teeth. I always talk about the fact that, you know, it’s not, let’s call it twice a day that you’re brushing your teeth, but it’s not 14 times on Sunday. Oh, I got my 14 times in. Right. No, no, no, no, no. It’s twice a day, seven days a week whether you wanna do it or not, just for something that small, right? And so it’s the same thing. People are like, well, you know, I’m doing this on, uh, you know, on Sunday, maybe I get a big workout in, or I get this eaten ride in, or whatever it may be.
But it’s not that, man. It’s twice a day, 14 times a week. And that’s what we gotta do with our personal lives as well. And I think, I found I was working and was successful early on in my financial advising career, but I was always having to search for that motivation. Because I wasn’t truly living the authentic life that I wanted to be living, right?
Hence why I end up leaving there and starting my own firm is to work more on my purpose. And I think that’s where if in anybody’s driving down the road or exercising, listening to this, and you’re constantly looking for motivation, I would say dig deeper and go find your purpose. Would you agree?
Justin Su’a
I love that. Yeah. Purpose is, it’s your engine behind performance. Uh, you look at these athletes who are fast and strong and smart and talented. You’re gonna run into when you get to the highest level, everyone’s fast.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah.
Justin Su’a
Everyone’s strong, everyone’s talented, everyone’s smart. But it’s, it’s like, like a really nice car. Like, it doesn’t matter how nice the car is, if it doesn’t have an engine, it’s not going anywhere. It, it’s not going anywhere.
Brett Gilliland
Mm-hmm.
Justin Su’a
And so for me, engine, purpose is the engine that drives performance. Why do you do what you do? And sometimes it changes. There’s a time when I was sitting, I was with the Browns and an athlete comes into my office and he said, sue a man I’m just kind of going through the motions. I’m just, I don’t know what it is. I’m just kind of, I’m not as driven as I used to be. And the first question I ask is, okay, common question. What’s your why this? If you’re okay with it, can you share with me your why? What’s your purpose?
Brett Gilliland
Mm-hmm.
Justin Su’a
And he goes, this is what his answer was, to play in NFL. And right when he said that he stopped himself. And I said, did you just say to play in the N F L is your purpose? And he was almost embarrassed that he said that out loud. He had been in the N F L for three years, for three seasons, which is a very, it’s longer than normal. Like.
Brett Gilliland
Twice as long as the average, right?
Justin Su’a
Yes. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And he goes, oh my goodness. And I said, tell me about, he said what? He goes to play in the N F L was my why through college. It was my why through high school. It drove me, it propelled me, it lit me on fire. It helped me through the N F L combine. He goes, it was, it wa it’s what kept me going. It was my fire. And he goes, I didn’t think of changing my why until right now. I kept it, it got me here, but once I got here, I, it wasn’t until that moment he didn’t realize that he now needed to change his why, to find something to fire him up, to find something to propel him. We sat there, we went through his why. We created a new one and wouldn’t you know it, he’s still playing to this day, and that was four years ago and he’s still playing. He has some pro bowls under his belt, big contracts under his belt, and we talked about it. He goes I went through a little, I went through a little dry spell and it all it took was him recalibrating his purpose to light that fire under him. For himself.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah.
Justin Su’a
For himself to keep going on. So that’s why I like purpose so much is like, what is your why? Why do you do what you do? Because you’ll find more power to do what you do when you do it on purpose with purpose.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah. Well, so many things stand out for me right there. But number one is the, the teacher appears when the student’s ready. Right? I mean, he, he, but he needed that sounding board in you. And so again, people listening to this, I would say if you don’t have a coach or you don’t have a mentor, but you’re feeling stuck, right now. Just go talk to somebody and, and so many times when by us talking to somebody, we can figure it out on our own, right? Just like he started to figure it out. But now you got that confidant with you that’s gonna help you and walk you through it and be there for you. And that’s a big, big deal.
Justin Su’a
I, I like what you said, because I always get the question, what do you tell these elite athletes? What do you tell them? And the reality is, I respect their experience and I respect their expertise.
They are highly competitive. They have done things that I couldn’t imagine doing.
Brett Gilliland
Right?
Justin Su’a
Um, even earlier in my career when I was with the military, when I, I’ve never been in the military. I’ve never jumped outta planes. I’ve never been in combat. I’ve never played major league baseball. I’ve never led an organiz-, a multimillion dollar organization.
However, however, when I sit with these athletes and these leaders, it’s asking questions and providing a space where they feel safe to, to listen to themselves talk, creating a space where they can hear themselves think out loud. And they’ll say certain things and then they’ll be like, whoa, I’ve never said that out loud.
I’ve had it in my head. I’ve never said it out loud. And, and the, the, the principle I always love to lay to lean on is if you want better answers, start asking better questions.
Brett Gilliland
Mm-hmm.
Justin Su’a
And so I will ask these questions. Hey, what is your why? What are you afraid of? What are your weaknesses? And to let them answer and let them put it on the table and say, okay, let’s look through these answers, and pick one up and say, do you, you just said this. Do you believe this? What about this? Okay, let’s put that down. Or what are you gonna do about it? Okay, great. All right. And so that’s what really I, I feel, uh, my role is, is to provide a space to ask questions so that they could answer their own questions and find their own answers. And, and then take action with what they’re saying.
Then I, then I ask, okay, so there’s your answer. So now what, what are you gonna do about it? And help them with their decision making ability.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah. It’s a common theme that I talk about on here. So people are, uh, or will probably know what I’m gonna say, but the, the A D T ask don’t tell. And I always say that because if I tell you something right, then it’s just me as your coach or me as your boss, or me as your parent, right?
Even our kids. But if I can ask, great questions. And they come up with it on their own. Well, it’s the gospel then at that point, right? It’s their idea. And I think that’s where we gotta get to. And I put this post on last week on social media, um, and I, it was just a blank sheet of paper. And I said, how do you start your 2023 planning?
And for me, it’s a blank sheet of paper, an ink pen, and a bunch of great questions to ask this guy, right? The guy you look in the mirror.
Justin Su’a
Mm-hmm.
Brett Gilliland
And so, uh, I think that’s really, really powerful to ask other people good questions that you’re coaching or working with, but ask yourself the questions too, man, because you’re laying in bed at night and you’re thinking, or you get up in the morning, you’re doing, your routines of working out and meditation, whatever may be, those questions are really, really solid to ask yourself.
Justin Su’a
Uh, it reminds me of, uh, so in 2020 we’re at the World Series. We’re playing against the Dodgers and I’m in the outfield during batting practice and I approach a player who had an outstanding regular season and I said, what do you got, man? How you doing? And he says, well, I’m really, I’m really nervous. Understandably so.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah.
Justin Su’a
And so my next question was, why? Well, well what’s, what’s on your mind? And he starts going, what if I’m, what if I embarrass myself? What if I fail? What if, what if I ruin it for our team? What, what if all these questions. And, and he and I sit there and I said, that’s, that’s a really good point. And then I say, well, what if, what if you’re the MVP of the World Series? What if you play so well, you, you sign a multimillion dollar contract? What if you are so good you’re on the cover of MLB, the show, the video game, the next season? And we just start laughing and, and he, he laugh, he laughs, he goes, I see what you did there. I’m like, well.
Brett Gilliland
I see what you did there.
Justin Su’a
What… I said, so essentially is two principles from this. Number one is when uncertainty is looming. When we do not know what the future holds, our mind is going to go to the negative. It’s the negative. It’s going to be the negative what if. We are gonna paint this doom and gloom because of the negativity bias as a protective mechanism. But another corollary lesson that we learned from this is when you ask yourself a question. Your mind is going to go and bring back evidence to answer that question. So if you’re asking yourself, why am I such a bad leader? Your mind is going to go and give you evidence to why you’re a bad leader. If you ask yourself, why does this always happen to me? Why am I so bad? Your mind is going to go and find and bring evidence to support that question.
And so we always say, if you want better questions or answers, start asking better questions. Instead of asking that it’s okay, what can I learn from this situation? What is, how is this making me stronger? What am I grateful for? Okay, how can my purpose help me through this difficult time. And as you ask yourself these great questions, you are going to be able to build this support through the questions that you ask. And so what we’re aiming to do is help athletes and leaders and people enhance the quality of the questions that they ask themselves so that the outputs could be more productive.
Brett Gilliland
So let me ask you some questions then, since we’re all, since I’ve been doing it the whole time actually. Uh, but, uh, if I follow you around, okay, I’ve got a camera crew now. We’re gonna follow you around for a while and what am I gonna find day in and day out justin is doing without fail.
Justin Su’a
Without fail, you will see that there will be, you’ll see me flow like because of the nature. I have three teenager. Three teenage kids. Uh, we are in a smaller space in Los Angeles, California. We live in Florida. We have kids everywhere. So what you’ll see is how fluid, and my schedule isn’t always under my control now that I’m in the off season, I’m in the off season. I am, I am basically, okay, I’m here, I’m there with my wife, with my kids. You’ll see me do some kind of physical workout every single day. Every single day.
Brett Gilliland
Seven days a week.
Justin Su’a
You’ll see six days a week. One day I will like, I, I will, yeah, six days, six days a week. Uh, you’ll always see me, um, you will always see me do some type of learning with a book, uh, and you’ll see me take journaling. You will always see me doing some type of, of, of growth and reflection of the day.
You will always see me check in with a player or a coaching staff of the team a hundred percent of the time, whether it be through text or phone call to check in with somebody. And you’ll always see me um, I’m going through, I’m, I’m going through school right now. I’m, I’m getting a PhD in organizational psychology and so I will always be reading a research article right now. Um, always 100% chipping away at my dissertation every single day without fail. And you always see me having some time with the family, like..
Brett Gilliland
Yeah.
Justin Su’a
Games or, or whatnot. But I will always do that. Now, once the season starts, you’ll see, you’ll see those things, but it’s, it’s completely different schedule.
Brett Gilliland
Because you travel with the team every game, right? I mean, you’re gone just like you’re a baseball player.
Justin Su’a
Correct. Correct. And so I, there’s a little hesitation in that because sometimes when the team is on the road, I’ll stay, stay back with the, with the injured rehab players.
Brett Gilliland
Okay.
Justin Su’a
Or if the team is at home playing against a team, I am gonna be going to AAA to, to, to, to help there to see a player who like, so I will. But yeah, 90% of the time I am with the team.
Brett Gilliland
You’re sitting in the dugout watching the game that, uh, Brett Phillips was on the team. He was there when Yeah, he was there. Uh, that’s when you guys hit the, uh, or won the, uh, World Series, right?
Justin Su’a
Uh, when we won Game five. Brett Phillips. Yes. I had a.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah, yeah. Game winning hit.
Justin Su’a
Unbelievable experience.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah. He just got a, an award, uh, here in St. Louis on a board I set on the Musial Awards after Stan Musial. And, uh, he got an award for the work he’s doing, um, with a, with a girl, a little girl down there that’s sick with cancer and all that. It’s an amazing story. Amazing story. Story. Yeah.
Justin Su’a
Yes.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah, exactly.
Justin Su’a
Beautiful, beautiful story.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah, it’s a great story. So I just thought I’d share that, so, um.
Justin Su’a
That’s cool.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah. So when you think about your, uh, the power of framing, again, another post you put on there, talk to our listeners about the power of framing.
Justin Su’a
Yeah. Uh, framing really comes down to how you are interpreting your situation. I think it was Wayne Dwyer Dyer who said that when you change the way you look at things, the things you look at change. And even though we cannot control what is happening to us, we, we, we have certain amount of control, power comes in the way you frame it. Power comes in the way you interpret it. What is the meaning you are giving behind your current situation? And is the meaning helping you or is the meaning hurting you?
And framing is a, is a, is a term that we use, but the way I like to talk about it are literal frames. When you take a picture and you put a frame around that picture, there are all types of. Glass frames, metal frames, big frames, small frames, and it’ll add a little color to that picture. And frames are expensive, frames are cheap, frames are homemade. And with macaroni. And frames are, are they’re different types.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah.
Justin Su’a
And that is exactly how we need to look at our situations. How are you framing this situation? Because how you frame the situation will impact, number one, how it influences you, and then number two, what you’re going to do about it.
Now, I am not a fan. I’m not a fan of uh, of, of toxic positivity frames. I am not a fan, fan of Everything is great in awesome frames. Oh. Or or, or just discounting. Um, just, just trying to look away frames like, oh, I’m not gonna, I’m not going to, I’m, I’m not going to account for my role in this situation. I’m not going to account for my influence on how bad this, how I’m contributing to the problem.
No, the best frame in my opinion, is being able to look at the brutal facts. What are the brutal facts? How am I contributing to it? How am I not contributing to it? Okay, great. How is this affecting me? How does it make me feel? Okay, great. What am I gonna do about it? And then what are the indicators that my process is right?
Uh, because a lot of times what we don’t talk about a lot is we don’t talk about the lagging effects of a system. So for example, let’s say you wanna get in shape, you can’t go to to the gym for two weeks, eat right for two weeks and not see, or let’s just say, let’s say, let’s say one week and you’re not seeing any, any, um, outcome, you’re not seeing any benefits. Say, ah, I’m throwing it out the window. It’s like, no, you have to account for the lagging effect. You have to account that it’s going to take time. And so when you do frame and you do identify the changes you need to make, and then you need to make the change. Then you also need to account for the fact that, you know what, okay, I need to account for the fact that this is going to take weeks before I see the benefits of my effort. It might take months before I see the benefits of my effort. And so, um, framing has so many other concepts packaged into it, but I think it’s, it’s on the outset it’s asking yourself, how am I interpreting this? And also accounting for your blind spots and your own cognitive biases. We all have them. We all have biases.
We all have these, these biases, these blind spots. That’s why it’s important to surround ourselves with people we trust who can hold us accountable for our own blind spots.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah. Yeah. That’s so big, isn’t it? I mean, and, but I also think that’s where you talked about earlier, your journal. I mean, I know for me, my blind spots, it’s where, and nobody’s perfect you, but that’s where you sit down and again, ask yourself questions. Right.
But I also think when you were, it popped in my mind as I called the bounce back theory, is the framing. So no matter what happens in our, our day or weeks, or months or year, bad stuff, good stuff, whatever, um, how fast we bounce back from defeat matters. The most successful out people I’ve seen, right? They’re not going home and getting in the fetal position and saying, poor me, and, you know, crying about it. Now, they may be cry about it for a minute or two, but they’re gonna get back up, dust themselves off, and they’re gonna get back at it and figure out a way to get out of the, the crap that they’re in.
Justin Su’a
When I was with the Red Sox, with the minor leagues, I, uh, we were doing an example and I had a bouncy ball and I had a baseball, and I told ’em, Hey, which, which one is more resilient? Crickets, nobody answered, understandably so. It was a bad question. They didn’t know how to answer it. I said, okay, here’s a better question. Which one will bounce better when it’s dropped? From 50 feet up and they said, bouncy ball for sure. Now what if we had an egg and a bouncy ball? They’re like, oh, bouncy ball, for sure. And I said, the higher up we go, what’s gonna happen to the bounce of the bouncy ball? They’re like, it’s going to bounce back higher. I said, why? And they’re like, because what it’s made of, it’s made of rubber, it’s very resilient, it’s gonna bounce back. And then the question was are you, do you have the resilience of a bouncy ball or do you have the resilience of an egg or a baseball? And I loved what you said. And so we took, I gave every single player a bouncy ball to put in their locker as a signal. Hey, how fast are you bouncing back? And.
Brett Gilliland
I love that.
Justin Su’a
I think these tools, these to-, these mental tools that they’re building, that they’re using, all of these things you and I are discussing, is for the purpose of them to bounce back quicker.
Brett Gilliland
Yep.
Justin Su’a
Like to be be able to refocus faster, to be more resilient, to get your confidence back quicker, to whatever it may be, faster so that you can get back into the action so you’re not laying down and just feeling sorry for yourself.
In computer engineering, the term is called refactoring. So what refactoring essentially is, essentially these, and I tell people, these athletes, they’re going to refocus. They’re, they’re resilient. They’re going to bounce back. But could we give them a tool to help them do it a little bit faster, a little bit quicker than they were before?
And if we can do that, then that, that’s, that’s huge that, that helps so much. And so another thing as well is you are more likely to respond to adversity if you prepare yourself to respond to adversity. So a tool that we do, we call the bounce back plan, to go along with what you said is re-identify what are all the potential pitfalls that you’re going to run into.
What are the things that you know over the course of your season, your day, your week are going to make you mad. A bad call from an umpire, Striking out three times in a row, having a bad game, getting demoted to AAA, like you just, all of these just put ’em down all down on paper. And then what we’re gonna do is we’re gonna write, uh, implementation intention.
If this happens, then I’m gonna respond this way. When this happens, then I’m gonna respond this way so that we’re not running from it, so that we’re expecting it, and so that when that thing happens, all of a sudden they’re like, you know what? I was mentally prepared for this. I didn’t want this to happen, but you know what? I knew. I wrote down, this is how I’m going to respond. And where I learned this lesson was the military. For two years, two and a half years, I was with the soldiers of the US Army. And they planned for this. They planned for, okay, when your weapon gets stuck, this is what you’re going to do. When you. When your battle buddy is injured, this is how you are going to drag him outta battle or her outta battle.
They literally prepare for worst case scenario so that when it happens, they’re amygdala, they don’t, they don’t freeze. They’re shocked, they’re prepared, they’re ready. They think to themselves, I have literally trained for this adversity. Uh, I heard stories of Michael Phelps and his coach, he would train in the dark, he would train with no goggles. He would train with foggy goggles and keep swimming because if this happens in the Olympics, we prepared for this and it’s not gonna catch us off guard. And I think that’s something that a lot of people, uh, don’t, I think it’s intuitive, but we don’t practice it. How are you going to respond when these friction pieces or these obstacles present themselves.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah, that’s so strong gosh dang, that’s so strong. I wrote that down to write it down. And then how are we gonna get out of it, basically, in a sense. And so to think about the power of visualization, so many times we think about, oh, I visualize myself doing this in a positive way, but that negative way, and it, it’s goofy, but it’s, it’s kind of true.
I, I have a, I’m kind of superstitious and so I, I hit like I play a lot of golf and when I warm up, I have same sand wedge as my 52 degree wedge, my seven iron and my driver. That’s the three clubs I hit when I go to the driving range before a round. But I always hit four golf balls out of a divot. And it’s like, you know, you’re obviously, you’re playing the ball down and so therefore, what if it happens, man, I wanna be prepared for it.
So I know that feeling when my ball comes out of a divot. And it’s just like what you’re talking about for this, I think that’s a strong, I mean a really strong exercise for people to do. Write down all the things that can happen and then write down, because now you’ve been there.
Justin Su’a
I really like what you, I want to really highlight what you just said about visualization. A lot of us, when we say visualize, we visualize, or a word I’ve heard people say is, man-, try to manifest outcomes. Visualize the house, visualize closing the deal. Visualize success. Now, now the problem, the, the, the problem with that is when, Mike Tyson said it like the, the, the famous philosopher, Mike Tyson, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.
Brett Gilliland
That’s right. That’s right.
Justin Su’a
Now, what are you going to do if you only visualize the good when adversity strikes? You’re gonna panic because that didn’t align with your visualization. One thing that’s also beneficial is visualize yourself overcoming adversity. Visualize yourself hitting a nice a, a shot out of the divot.
Visualize yourself how you’re going to respond after a strikeout. You’re gonna strike out. Don’t be like, no, I’m not gonna strike out. You’re going to strike out. How do you visualize yourself? How are you going to respond? To this difficult conversation. So let’s say you’re about to have this, give this very difficult feedback to somebody.
Very hard phone call conversation you’re gonna have. You also wanna anticipate what is the worst case? What is it gonna look like? When he or she does not receive this feedback well, if they, what is the worst case scenario? How am I going to respond to this? We also have to attribute or prepare for that because you are more likely to respond effectively if you prepare for worst case scenario.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah.
Justin Su’a
And I think sometimes people are afraid to, they don’t wanna, no, no, I don’t want to consider that. I don’t want to put that bad juju out there. It’s like, well, then you’re gonna struggle when, when adversity strikes.
Brett Gilliland
So let’s, let’s turn the page now, because I know how important your family is, man. Let’s, let’s brag about these kids you’ve got, your, your, your children are all doing amazing things, but they, uh, some of ’em making it on the big screen, man. And.
Justin Su’a
It’s, it has been such a whirlwind, uh, to, for those who aren’t familiar, so yeah, my, my youngest daughter, 14 year old in 2019, she played the Rock’s daughter in his movie Hobbs and Shaw.
Right now she is the star of a new Disney TV show that’s coming out. Uh, we’re here in Los Angeles. She’s shooting, um, my son just released his album. Um, he was, he was in the studio doing things with Drake. Uh, he just received a top, he’s 16 years old and he has his career. He’s signed, it’s, it’s a career where, uh, they, he has his agent and his manager, my daughter as well.
And then my other daughter, Maya. She’s, she’s awesome. She’s doing, she’s doing wonderful things, but it’s, um, we’re really just trying to figure this out. We’re, we’re trying to. Since they were younger, trying to help them just identify, Hey, what do you love to do? Uh, don’t wanna answer the question, what do you want to, what do you wanna do when you grow up? We ask, what do you wanna do right now? Okay.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah.
Justin Su’a
And just do it the best you possibly can. And another thing as well is, is we talk about often at the dinner table, is when you wanna pursue greatness the odds are against you, like the odds of Eliana, the odds that you are going to be a movie star and, and be with The Rock and Ryan Reynolds and Kevin Hart are less than 1%.
Just so you know that the odds that you are going to be a star on the Disney show, less than 1%. Jerem our son, if you’re gonna be in the billboards, the odds are less than 1%. But my, look me in the eyes, do you love this? Yes. I love this. Okay, great. Do it cause you love it. Do okay. Don’t, don’t pursue the, the odds are against you. But if you love it and this is what you wanna do, all right, mom and dad will put you in a best position we can. And, but you need to love it and work it. And if you don’t wanna do this you don’t have to do this. We ask her. It’s we ask our daughter and our son. Do you still love this? Yes, I love it. Okay.
You don’t, you don’t need this. You don’t have to do this. This doesn’t define you or doesn’t, doesn’t define us as parents. Like, as long as you love it. And so we’ll see how, we’ll see what they do.
Brett Gilliland
It’s amazing.
Justin Su’a
We’ll see how far they go. But it’s been a fun ride so far.
Brett Gilliland
And you, you talk about that 1%. I mean, so we can, we’ll pick on that for a minute cause they’re not, I mean, to my knowledge, you guys are not, you know, all connected in the movie business and you don’t have a background in it. It’s not like, you know, you just, you, you pick up the phone and call a buddy and something happens. I mean, th- this is like, she went out and made this happen.
Justin Su’a
She was eight years old and we were watching tv. She’s like, I wanna be an actor. And we’re like, okay. Like we don’t know how to do that. We’re in this small little Bradenton, Florida, and it’s not the mecca of, we don’t, don’t know what we’re doing. So we get her an acting coach and we’re like, okay. Like, and, and they’re doing it and okay, we need to get her an agent.
And we don’t have anyone, we don’t have any con- zero connections. We come to Los Angeles, she gets declined. Like so many nos. I can’t tell you how many nos.
Brett Gilliland
Wow.
Justin Su’a
And to the point to where we’re like, we should just, just quit like this. Like, you should just stop doing this because the you can’t do it. But she loved it. Like she loved it. We’re like, okay, all right. If you love it, like. Okay, fine. Like enjoy doing coaching cause you’re not gonna be in, you’re not, you’re not getting movies, you’re not getting commercials, you’re not on stage, you’re not doing, but you love it. And then she, she got a yes after a 200 something nos, okay, that’ll get us to the next thing and that’ll get us to the next thing.
And she just continued to love it. And a lot of tears, a lot of, a lot of, no. Way more. She’s, she’s, I think if, I think 315 nos in her career, like big role. And she’s gotten like three yeses, like three yeses. And we thought her role with The Rock was gonna open all these doors. And.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah.
Justin Su’a
It was, it wasn’t nearly what we thought it was going to be to be.
Brett Gilliland
Yeah.
Justin Su’a
Completely honest. Um, but yeah, even, even after that, she got, most of her nos came after her role with The Rock. Most of her nos came after that. And then, um, an.
Brett Gilliland
Amazing man.
Justin Su’a
Guest with Disney and yeah. And so it’s been, uh, my, our son as well. Our son as well. He’s, he, he is just kind of been in his own, just on his computer, just making beats and people, they just have loved the craft. They love doing it, and they just got better and better and better. And so.
Brett Gilliland
I love it.
Justin Su’a
We’ll see. We’ll see where it goes.
Brett Gilliland
Well, we’ll keep watching it, man. It’s been awesome, uh, having you again on the Circuit of Success. Uh, tell our listeners where to find more of, uh, of you.
Justin Su’a
Yeah, so, uh, any, uh, uh, Twitter, Instagram, Justin Sua, j u s t i n s u a. That’s usually where I put, put all of my stuff. And, uh, yeah, looking forward to reconnecting with anyone.
Brett Gilliland
It’s a, uh, it’s a great follow. I will tell you that, man, you can always, uh, put stuff on there on point, you know, very direct, very helpful. Uh, I’m a big fan of it. Always love seeing it and, uh, just keep doing what you’re doing, man. Always appreciate you.
Justin Su’a
Thanks so much, Brett. Likewise. Thank you.
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